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Post by Guitar of Foe on Dec 18, 2003 9:44:19 GMT
That is NOT a general statement. I'm sure some could.
But, I have a little story I wanted to share with you guys.
When studying composition at uni we were asked for one assignment to arrange a piece of music that we liked for a string quartet. Our arrangements would then be played by a professional string quartet and we would be marked on our abilities to tranlate music to performers. They would have one chance to play through the piece to work it out, and then they had to perform it all the way through once without stopping . We would get marked on that performance.
Hehe, I helped a friend out with arranging 'Stupid Puma'. We were both really excited about hearing the track played on string instruments.
Anyway, the day comes and we enter the room nervous but excited. The string quartet are already seated and on a table as you enter are various CDs and promotional leaflets with quotes like "these players are virtuosic" etc etc.
Most people had arranged Beatles or Sting songs and the quartet were ploughing through these with great ease looking really smarmy and arrogant. And then it came to Stupid Puma...
They couldn't even get the rhythm of the first fucking bar right!!! It 5/8 for God's sake!!! They were somehow squaring it off into 4/4/ and it sounded WEIRD. The cello player seemed to have most difficulty, but they all looked as though they were a bit on edge. The notes were fine, but they still struggled. They decided to try the bar that is in 7/8 - You know "Chug-chug-chug-chug-weedle-wee". Man I've never seen such red faces in all my life. It was pure genius. They actually couldn't perform it. I was a bit gutted at the time because I really wanted to hear it. Man I wish I had a recording of that. It would have been funny as fuck to post it here. And to think they would have had to play the bit were the band start to accent different notes of the 5/8 riff. They wouldn't have stood a chance.
Yeah, that was an interesting experience. If that quartet are supposedly 'virtuosic' Don Cab must be double that. Well done boys.
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XBangyrdead
You Drink a Lot of Coffee For a Teenager
Posts: 145
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Post by XBangyrdead on Dec 18, 2003 10:00:24 GMT
I too would have taken full advantage of that rare opportunity, and reveled in the outcome... nicely done!
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Post by brikelly on Dec 18, 2003 14:22:34 GMT
Funniest post in a long time, nice one!
It's a pity you didn't have a video running - I would love to see those red faces too :-)
Brian
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Post by Aria on Dec 18, 2003 21:06:25 GMT
Nice story. It was bands like Don Cab that helped me realize there are different types of musicians/players. I was down on myself for a long time about my abilities. Then, as I started to develop, I realized not everyone plays and learns and composes the same way. Yes, the idea sounds simple, but it honestly wasn't something I realized when I first started playing guitar. I went the longest time thinking I was missing something or, if I could just figure out one thing, then I could be great...
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Post by chad on Dec 18, 2003 23:28:51 GMT
thats a dirty trick.
try writing a piece in east indian classical composition, and they wouldnt be able to play ANY notes.
the thiing is. don cab is mainly pursussion, even the guitar lines are a lot more like drum hits. strings ARE difficult to bow in the same why that don cab is played rythmically. had the ensamble been composed of different instruments i'm sure they would have picked it up.
also don cab uses delay pedals and practices those songs. i applaud that ensamble for getting any of it right.
even i could figure out a song from sting or the beatles in a minute, just from memory.
but you must understand that most, and especially classical musicians, are not listening or are probably exposed to little of this math-rocky stuff.
also i guaruntee you that don cab writes and memorizes all of their tunes WITHOUT notation.
therefore, it would be much easier for me, or anyone else to pick up the tune and rythym if i HEARD it first.
thats another reason why western notation and the 12 tone system is such an oversimplified cop out, or its also an illogical and insufficient way to communicate music.
oral tradition and learning through playing are the only ways to truly pick up the intricacies of more complex rythmic structures (like the concept of "clave" in afro-latin music) as well as the microtonal slides and nuances of east-indian music (bols, raags, thaalas, shrutis).
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Post by Mr Extreme on Dec 19, 2003 3:38:28 GMT
Chad,
It's nice to hear your musings on accomplished orchestral technique, particularly because you can't seem to spell one word in the English language correctly. You must be a "musical" genius or something.
Mr. Extreme
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Post by chad on Dec 19, 2003 7:29:58 GMT
why does this have to start again? mr Extreme what is your problem? my brother is right about forums, because you would never say anything so spiteful and irrellivant regarding anything i wrote about, to my FACE.
what did i just spell wrong? and why does that matter?
kids in national spelling bee competitions have to memorize the spelling and origin of words that have not been used for hundreds of years. WTF STFU LMAO you fukkkkkkface. there is that better?
i was just pointing out the OBVIOUS differences between the way don cab would write a song and the point/use of notation and sight reading for a sting quartet. this doesnt take a genius, just someone with a knowledge of music history.
and being able to play a beatles or sting song by ear and from memory, doesnt make anyone a musical genius.
just like having knowledge of any musical tradition outside of the extremely recent western notation, doesnt make me a genius. it does make my knowledge of world music history and tradition more broad.
once again i wasnt bagging on anyone, i just,
JOKINGLY said, that was a dirty trick.
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Post by ShawnPhase on Dec 19, 2003 11:10:55 GMT
heh. id like to see an orchestra try playing some hella.
loincloth would be friggin laughable too.
sp
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Post by chad on Dec 19, 2003 23:24:05 GMT
sure...but what is the point?
is this now, elitism?
are you saying relative "complexity" equals "better" music?
again i site east indian harmony. step to this.
however,
form is irrellevant, function is everything.
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XBangyrdead
You Drink a Lot of Coffee For a Teenager
Posts: 145
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Post by XBangyrdead on Dec 20, 2003 20:57:52 GMT
I think you're kind of missing the point here... No one is saying that the complexity of music is directly proportionate to how good it is. That's not it. It's just an entertaining notion that classically trained (virtuoso) musicians have trouble playing the odd rhythms and time changes that are signature to "math rock" (if you must label it), ie Don Caballero. It's just over their heads. They have been trained their entire lives to be machines when it comes notation and written/printed music. And although many classicaly trained players are exposed to very intense and technical masterpieces and compositions, there is always the exception. With more time, maybe the pieces would have been embraced by the players... but with limited time, it is hard to fight against everything you have learned, and take things out of context. That is why the group of musicians (as stated earlier) wanted to group the rhythm into 4/4 time. It's what they have seen all their lives.
But no Chad... just because the music is technical, doesn't mean that it is better. And no one is saying that here. And obviously Don Caballero isn't the most difficult/technical music in the world. If I can sit down with an acoustic and pick out the songs, then anyone can.
So no need to call people out or be defensive. It's just a funny situation. No one is trying to prove anything.
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Post by chad on Dec 20, 2003 22:55:20 GMT
sure sure,
i think the other point is that sight-reading is pretty useless for any music, that IS that rythmically complex.
and same goes for melodies, that are microtonally more complex.
that's why "music schools" at least the institutional way that people learn "in the west", is not only innefficient, but illogical. and it goes against the progression of the 4 changes in music, as proposed by chris cutler.
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XBangyrdead
You Drink a Lot of Coffee For a Teenager
Posts: 145
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Post by XBangyrdead on Dec 21, 2003 0:44:51 GMT
I agree. Sight reading some Don Cab wouldn't be a walk in the park. In fact, it would prove to be a daunting task that few could tackle. Tough stuff to play off the cuff! Hey... that rhymed. I'm a fucking genius. Cheers!
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Post by dalyzach on Mar 14, 2010 3:06:20 GMT
"For Respect" played on cello. Best reinterpretation of a Don Cab song I've ever heard. www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gRCUOdap7UIncidentally that's the cat who played cello on the Knot Feeder album. |
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Rocco
You Drink a Lot of Coffee For a Teenager
Posts: 157
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Post by Rocco on Mar 18, 2010 2:06:19 GMT
"For Respect" played on cello. Best reinterpretation of a Don Cab song I've ever heard. Pretty cool! Extra bonus points for resurrecting a thread from 2003 with something relevant! Side note: Oh yeah, "chad". I forgot all about that dbag. |
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Post by hospitalcomedian on Mar 19, 2010 21:15:05 GMT
That's brilliant.
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