|
Post by dude on Dec 3, 2003 0:11:26 GMT
yes, they are always getting in rediculous fights, cutting their set way early, or doing things to fuck with the audience (and i dont mean in a clever way like the futurists did).... plz explain?? and they are just plain pricks... why??? this makes no sense.
|
|
|
Post by ShawnPhase on Dec 16, 2003 7:21:29 GMT
the short answer is this: because they can
the longer answer is this: because they've been doing this for well over 10 years, and have left a hell f a legacy. more of a legacy than anyon in our lifetime will understand. their music will be picked out in the future, much in the same way that greats such as mingus, coltrane, others have been. that answers *.*
|
|
|
Post by chad on Dec 16, 2003 7:42:14 GMT
hahahahahhahahahhahahhahahahahahahahhahaha ahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahha ahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahha ahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhaha ahahahhahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahahahahah mingus and coltrane? shit, why even "jazz"? shit, i don't even consider those two to be anywhere near my favorite,most important or most influencial jazz artists. try coleman, monk, cicil taylor, art tatum, ferdinand morton, zappa, beefheart. hell, the most important people, YOU didnt mention, for example, conlan nancarrow, john cage, eno, schaffer, henri, reich, lucier, harry partch, etc etc etc......... man, you should listen to more music. my post in the other bands forum titled "giving back" contains great artists. in the future people won't give a shit about anything especially not don cabballero. HOWEVER...... your other reasons made more sense though.
|
|
|
Post by lunchboxface on Dec 16, 2003 9:46:59 GMT
Chad, you are obviously too locked into the capitalist system to understand how good Charles Mingus is. Maybe if you knew more about music you'd be able to understand him. In conclusion, tribal fartshit and irregular, illogical caps usage.
|
|
Tetragrammatn
You Drink a Lot of Coffee For a Teenager
Posts: 144
|
Post by Tetragrammatn on Dec 16, 2003 21:09:56 GMT
Chad doesn't realize that there's a difference between what comes in and what goes out. I'm not saying that a band doesn't have to have integrity (if Good Charlotte started, somehow, making good music, I would seriously hate them on principle), but what do the "aesthetic" and "technique" mean at all if it's not good music? It's like the QR Ghazala thing in the other thread- I do enjoy listening to his music because it's interesting. You say that you like him because you admire his techniques and drive, his motivation- what does his motivation matter if you can't stand listening to his music? What's the point? You're so enamored with the process of making music that you're actually the only person who can appreciate it.
I don't have a problem with that. I'm learning a lot about electronics now so that I can build my own synths and do some circuit bending and basically rip off bands like Wolf Eyes, and I don't have a problem with that at all. It'll be fun, and I'm still young, so it'll be pretty good experience. But no matter how good I think I am, I wouldn't expect anybody to take me seriously. I don't expect anybody to appreciate my music simply because I can appreciate what goes into it and how it feels to make it- that would be selfish, illogical, and stupid.
So you can make all of the noise rock you want to, and it's great that you're having a blast, but please, seriously, we're not going to pretend that we like your music so that you'll stop insulting us. You don't know shit about fuck. Just stop now, please. This is a forum for discussion, true, but if all you're going to talk about is how mindblowing that you and your guitarist think your band is, we really don't want to hear it.
Shut the fuck up.
|
|
|
Post by chad on Dec 17, 2003 7:43:10 GMT
i clarify: to lunchboxface: yes i do understand how great mingus is. some awesome jerky rythym changes and assymetrical progressions. of course i love it, but please, give me a break, try someone that they dont teach about in Jazz history 101. "tribal fartshit" is cool!!! and caps usage has nothing to do with logic. its Sad tHaT yOU THink so. to Tetragrammatn: what does motivation matter? well to tell you the truth, when i first took sonic art history from zeena parkins in 2001(?) i really hated alot of what i heard and thought that it was kind of like artists jerking off. i've learned a lot since then, and i have a deeper understanding of "what" music is and "why"...............if you listen to harry partch, you'll see that there is so much to inspire a musician willing to think outside the box and see music and sound for what it really is, however i personally don't like all that much of his composed and performed music. thats irrellivant......because he makes instruments, he makes new tunings, he makes music and he makes other forms of art and performance(and he put out all of his recordings DIY, like ghazala). you can like the "art" of making your own instruments and recordings and ideas, more than just the "music". i like people who truly have MORE substance to their character/goals than the crap they might make. just like ghazala as well (whose shack and ideas and visual art and writing and diy ethics are all just as imspiring as his curcuit bent instruments. i don't bother listening to Ghazala's music because i'd rather listen to the ambiance of my surroundings right now(i truly believe john cage was "right" about this). if i really wanted to listen to music that i "like" aside from being interested in, then check out the other artists i posted in that list of links. my point is that i don't spend all that much time listening to others music because i'm making much of my own. i just spent the last 2 and a half days mixing a concret piece involving alot of naturalist recordings of endagered species. holy shit man, there are so many birdsongs that can only be truly appreciated if you slow down the recording so that our ears can hear the complex rythms and notes. i dare you to try it and you will freak man...amazing shit. first time i heard a compilation of north american songbird i said "fuck jazz", its right here and 200000 years old, and almost free if ya think about it. and, in truth, the last "music" i have listened to (and enjoyed) recently, are recordings of bird song, traditional santeria bata drum rythyms and also a cuban composer named Leo Brouer. you said this: "You're so enamored with the process of making music that you're actually the only person who can appreciate it." wow you finally got IT..... yes!!!!!! thats the point, spread the word. if you create music with the intent of someone appreciating it then you are doing it for all the wrong reasons. and i never said we were "mind blowing". (no music posted on this entire site has blown my mind, i did kind of dig Cheval de Frise though. ) i dont know the exact quote, but i'm sure i said that we were something more along the line of "uncontrived, honest, authentic, and imaginative" i still dare anyone to spend the measly six bux on an obscurites 1,2,3 if you want to hear "uncontrived, honest and authentic" music, that technically, is more complex than dan cab and the like. whatever. i don't care. in 99 i was in a pop/punk/metal band that wouldve looked something like Good charlotte and probably would be commercially viable right now in the end of 2003. i don't make garbage pop-punk like i did in highshool. its not just "music" for me anymore, now the "music" is art, life and religion. and i never expected anyone here to like or laud my music. instead i only thought that, if someone would like don cab then they might be receptive to thinking more about music. see, now i'm interested in what YOU are making, experimenting with. but i dont know who wolf eyes is, and i would hope that you would inspire to be MORE than whatever they are, or at least more of YOU. also, in truth, i am no ones "fan". i seriously want to work with some interesting, fun and creative people, like my friends, the artists i posted on the board and maybe even you........ if i'm full of shit, then i hate to think what you must be filled with.... chad.
|
|
drobot
Faux-Ass Nonsense
Posts: 75
|
Post by drobot on Dec 17, 2003 16:48:26 GMT
you said this: "You're so enamored with the process of making music that you're actually the only person who can appreciate it."
wow you finally got IT..... yes!!!!!! thats the point, spread the word. if you create music with the intent of someone appreciating it then you are doing it for all the wrong reasons.
So why have sex when you can just jerk off all the time?
|
|
|
Post by Aria on Dec 17, 2003 17:07:36 GMT
I know I've probably lost all credibility after my SoCal/Sacto "factoid" but: First, let me clarify: I'm not really interested in jumping into this debate that Chad seems to have going with everyone. I have noticed one thing though. Chad, you seem to jump at the chance to discredit a musician's integrity if any part of his intent whatsoever is making money. Why have there been at least two instances on the board where you tell people to spend the 5 or 6 bucks to buy a compilation with your music on it?
|
|
|
Post by ShawnPhase on Dec 18, 2003 3:33:00 GMT
----------------[fartface said this]----------------- shit, i don't even consider those two to be anywhere near my favorite,most important or most influencial jazz artists. try coleman, monk, cicil taylor, art tatum, ferdinand morton, zappa, beefheart. hell, the most important people, YOU didnt mention, for example, conlan nancarrow, john cage, eno, schaffer, henri, reich, lucier, harry partch, etc etc etc......... ---------------------------------------------------------
first off, how do you even know what i listen to...second off, your standoffishness has caused me to not even take what you say seriously, makes me (and others i know) just skim thru what you say, not to mention the fact that you are consistently trying to be a standoffish ass, so i guess thats really all that needs to be said, and i guess theres not much else for me to say that hasnt been said by others.... ja ne....
sp
|
|
|
Post by chad on Dec 18, 2003 8:16:03 GMT
fine, i wont be "standoffish", i'm not here to fight for the hell of it. i thought the people on this board would be much more interested in something like SINGLE UNIT, than something like TOOL.but maybe thats not the case.
fine. let me ask you, what do you think about the musicians i mentioned? or, what are your most important influences in thinking about your own music, or somthing more like don cab?
|
|
|
Post by chad on Dec 18, 2003 8:20:32 GMT
oh yeah, why have sex when you can jerk off all the time? thats a terrible analogy for playing music. when i've seen chris cutler play live it has usually been in an unconventional setting with an "audiance" as small as five people. just because you play loud or to a placked club doesnt mean its a meaningful experiance for the performer as well as the audience. i prefer more personal, unexpected shows, but thats because i did the band and club thing for a while, and its pretty lame. thats my opinion.
|
|
drobot
Faux-Ass Nonsense
Posts: 75
|
Post by drobot on Dec 18, 2003 14:36:10 GMT
Whatever, Chad - you said if you create music with the intent of someone appreciating it then you are doing it for all the wrong reasons.
and then said
i prefer more personal, unexpected shows, but thats because i did the band and club thing for a while, and its pretty lame.
Those are different.
If you're playing for anybody at all, then you must have some intent of having some affect on them, whether it be a 'small unexpected show' or in a club.
Playing only for yourself without any desire to affect another person is masturbation - you clearly want somebody to hear and appreciate your music, or you wouldn't 'prefer more personal, unexpected shows' and talk about yourself all the time.
And after listening to your stuff, I think it sounds more like masturbation - which is fine, but don't expect people to 'like' or get it if it was created in a vaccuum without any intent to entertain somebody.
I think if you pull your head out of your ass you're probably capabale of actually doing something cool, but I'm not so sure that's going to happen. But you know - I've known a lot of people who were like you when they were in grad school, and then woke up and went on to do stuff that was actually impressive.
|
|
|
Post by chad on Dec 18, 2003 22:36:35 GMT
first of all why are you trying to insult me? second of all i don't care about school anymore for the time being.
and no, what i say is not inconsistant.
i make "music" or "sonic-art" that makes me "feel good" and express, even when i'm alone, or in a SMALL GROUP. almost ALL of my "favorite" and most influencial musicians are either dead, don't play anymore, or are halfway on the other side of the world. so, i really only have their RECORDINGS and WRITING and ART to be influenced by. and in the case of DISSECTING TABLE, this guy has been putting out records, both independantly and on huge european labels,since 1985, and he has only played 2 live shows, and only in japan. alot of eno's albums can't be performed either. stockhausen gave a long lecture about this phonomenon too, that people can't except that a recording is art, and is something entirely different than a performed musical piece. I DO BOTH.
and ONCE AGAIN, i USED to write "songs" for a "band" with "lyrics" with the intent of doing that sort of pop-punk thing. that is an example of writing music for the wrong reasons. NOW, i will use whatever i want to create music or lets say sonic-art, with little to no limits in the possibilies, with the intent of making what I want and what works for me. when i say, unexpected shows, it could mean that plucking the mandolin or whatever instrument might have with me at any given moment and in any place , might turn into a sort of a show, if their happens to be somone else with an instrument or a group of people just happen to want to make music together, spontaniously. a true minstrel or shaman ALWAYS carries instruments.
dude, you told me yourself that "beyond 3 chords i run out of ideas". of course you're going to play pop/rock or whatever other band crap if thats the way you think about music.
tell indiginous americans playing communal ritual music, that what they are doing is masturbation and i hope they beat the shit out of you ;D same with santeria or voodou. or the birds.
stop trying to insult my intelligence. i wont contradict myself unless i'm just being humorous.
|
|
drobot
Faux-Ass Nonsense
Posts: 75
|
Post by drobot on Dec 18, 2003 23:38:42 GMT
I love that you are suddenly upset about being insulted after insulting people left and right.
dude, you told me yourself that "beyond 3 chords i run out of ideas". of course you're going to play pop/rock or whatever other band crap if thats the way you think about music.
tell indiginous americans playing communal ritual music, that what they are doing is masturbation and i hope they beat the shit out of you
Look, in that email, I was trying to politely get out of a discussion about the merits of your various projects because I wasn't that impressed by them and felt that any criticism I gave you would be dismissed as being uninformed. But you keep insisting to people here how great it is, so I told you what I thought of it in the post above.
You are right in pointing out that I'm not much of a musician (although maybe more of an artist in other areas.) Does that disqualify me from having an opinion about your music? If it does, than that's further evidence that you're a jerk-off b/c only you can appreciate your own music (or other similarly educated slobs.)
So you are only making music for yourself - that's great - if you don't care what people think about it - GREAT - but don't keep going on about how awesome it is if nobody is intended to ever hear or understand it (and yet, you want people to listen to it - see, again, a contradiction)
An indigenous American playing communial ritual music still has an audience. Yeah, it might be small, but there is some motivation in playing it other than making the musician feel good about themselves. If you only play music to suit yourself - FINE there's nothing wrong with that, but I contend that you do play music for other people, or you wouldn't talk about it all the fucking time. Get it?
And as for the pop/punk comment - how can you be down on popular 'commercial' music yet site Dick Dale, the Ventures, Talking Heads, Iron Maiden et al as influences without acknowledging that they are as 'coopted' by commercialism as the next band. Have you heard the Ventures Chrismas album? How about the Hawaii-Five-0 soundtrack? It's very DIY.
I'm just saying, as much as you think you know what you're talking about, you don't.
|
|
|
Post by ShawnPhase on Dec 19, 2003 10:36:51 GMT
chad, im not tryingto be standoffish, theres not much time in the world to bother with assyness. i just wish i could give your music a chance, but i dont know if thats happening unless you tone down your elitism and single-mindedness. there are many people here who dont write music, and dont even realize what sort this mentality is supposed to mean, and to be honest, im sure it freaks most people out. im not saying its a wrong way to think. im just saying that when you externalize it and just about impose it on others, you make no progress, as an artist, or a person.
sp
|
|