Get Out Alive(Long Version) Challenge!!!

[xtrizeme]

Seriously,
What album, of all the albums ever released, is better? Please submit opposing opinions here. Please don't comment on the short version. If you own the Long Version, please opine(O'Reilly style) on what you think the best rock album ever made is. If you haven't heard it, e-mail me and I'll mail you a copy. Really, how is this not the best rock album ever made? What album is better? I'll buy opposing albums if I haven't heard them(if you're not cool enough to send them to me @ 1702 Merry Oak Rd, Marietta, GA 30008). Discuss.

[xtrizeme]

Look,
I know I'm a gigantic asshole. And I think everyone else knows I'm the most gigantic asshole on this page. I think this is the third time I've been the first to respond to my own posting.
I can look at it two ways: 1) There are 57( the number of people that read my meandering, drunk, Speaking Canaries crap; via the last posting) super cool uber-ninja musical taste guys that have better taste in music than me...or there are just a lot of pussies out there that are intent on trying to believe that the Mars Volta are a good band, and are afraid to even breathe because they know how full of shit they are. As a human being I'd like to believe the former, as a crushed alcoholic I'm more inclined to believe the latter.
Here's another subjective point obnoxiously postulated with unreasonable aggression: the best character from Karate Kid isn't John Lawrence, it's Bobby Dutch. You know the one with the sperm perm that says, " You know points or no points...You're dead meat!"

[Don Caballero]

Storm & Stress - Under Thunder & Fluorescent Light

[ShawnPhase]

you know, new plastic ideas by unwound might be better.

or even, todays active lifestyles by polvo. other than that, theres not too many 'maybe's...

i think don caballero 2 is probably the best put together album ever. probably the best. and i think that is hand in hand with champs 3. there you go.... your change is 98 cents

[asristir]

Fortune smiles upon thee, ShawnPhase, for thou hast gained a level.

Thy Intelligence increases by 7.

Thy Response Speed increases by 4

Thy Strength increases by 2.

Thou hast learned a new spell:
Pwn

... yeah I play too much Dragon Warrior...

[asristir]

Everyone knows that Led Zeppelin 4 is the best album ever conceived.
.... just kidding. But it does kick ass.
As far as rock music, there will never be a finer display of composition, talent, execution, and style than Mr. Bungle's California.
The production alone is absolutely insane. That a song can be loungey one instant and suddenly, without warning, is elevator music segueing into hawaiian chillout segueing magically (maniacally?) back into the Big Chorus and still somehow WORK AS A SONG is amazing. That this is just the tip of the iceberg as far as this album is concerned is totally mind-boggling.
Who would have thought that heavy metal, surf, and romanian freakouts would be such excellent bedfellows? What the hell are funk breakouts, Residents-weird electronica, creepy carnival organ riffs and string sections doing in the same song? How does a salsa number mutate into cowboy paranoiac slide guitar weirdness, morph into near-ambient doom which erupts into gypsy metal and then dissolve into monk chanting which then evolves into the heaviest metal ever? Listen to California, yo.
Every key change, every fucked up tempo switch is performed flawlessly, and recorded to analog tape.. this wasn't a Pro Tools patch job by some whacka ass cracka suit calling the shots. This was a severe case of artists at work.

[FauxAssNonsense]

what about Naked City?

[asristir]

What about Naked City? First of all, it is an extension of jazz into the multi-genre platform, so it doesn't count as 'rock', whereas Bungle grew out of funk-rock, so it does count.
Second, where Bungle utilizes horns for many purposes (swing, jazz, middle-eastern stylings), all Zorn does is squeal (which gets so so boring after like two songs). So, Bungle wins in the imagination department.
Third, you cannot discount lyrics when discussing music with lyrics. Eye Kazoo (or whichever Bore guy was in N C) just screams and spazzes (which Patton does WAY fucking better with Fantomas, since there is method to the madness, not mere energy in place of method), with no lyrical content to speak of. Have you read the lyrics on California? Songs about string theory, materialism (on a POP record!), drug mentality, American anti-Dream, the very Art of Dying, evolution, and a ballad about an obsessive relationship that ends in suicide... what's not to love?
Naked City was alright, Zorn is borderline okay, but Bungle was genius.
All opinions copyright 05 Asristir. Please refute.

[FauxAssNonsense]

i haven't heard Mr. Bungle.

[Don Caballero]

Bungle owe a lot to Naked City. Asristir, I don't think you can justify what you're saying when you say that Naked City are an extension of jazz. Not all the musicians come from a jazz background, some of their albums don't even feature jazz music.
You can't really knock Zorn. He's output is huge and full of many great albums in all kinds of styles. Bungle are like a speck of dust compared to Zorn. Not to say I don't like Bungle, I think they're great.

[hospitalcomedian]

mr. bungle is just people going "look how clever we are". complete style over substance.
don cab 2 is a strong contender for best album ever, as is led zep 4. if physical grafitti trimmed down to a single record with the best songs off each, it would be the best record ever made

[Tetragrammatn]

Get the fuck out of here about Mr. Bungle. I think California is a pretty ingenious record but it is very very very far from the record I think is most listenable. I think Van Morrison's Astral Weeks and Neil Young's Tonight's the Night are the best rock records ever. There's a certain amazingness in minimalism people, and it's terrible that I'm posting this on a Don Cab board of all places but there's more to music than trying to fit in the most shit in the least amount of time possible. If that were the case Conlon Nancarrow might be the best composer ever.

[asristir]

admin said:

Bungle owe a lot to Naked City. I don't think you can justify what you're saying when you say that Naked City are an extension of jazz.
You can't really knock Zorn. His output is huge. Bungle are like a speck of dust compared to Zorn.

Yes, Bungle have used ideas similar to Zorn and Naked City, much the same way Led Zeppelin used the ideas of american blues. They took the intent and went somewhere completely other with it.
Naked City, when I listen to their music, sounds to me like an assload of improv with cued style changes- much like jazz, but with lots more wild energy, plus (or minus, depending how you feel about it) the tuneless screaming of Bore guy. I am trying to say, it feels closer to jazz to my ears... however I am fairly young and untutored, so my 'feelings' may be errant to the more knowledgable.
Mr Bungle utilized recognizable verse-prechorus-chorus-bridge rock progressions, most noticeably on the album California. They were, according to their WB bio, a rock band pretending to have roots in rock music. Ha ha. They feel closer to rock music to me.
While I do not particularly enjoy Zorn's music- if it says Tzadik on the label, that means 'musical vomit/hell' to me- I understand that he is a talented composer and lots of people admire his work. It just isn't for me. Shit like Hemophiliac doesn't awe me, it repels me. Maybe some day I will learn to like it. 'Til then... it will remain music that attempts to take me somewhere I have no interest in going. Much like electroacoustics.

[asristir]

hospitalcomedian said:

mr. bungle is just people going "look how clever we are". complete style over substance.

False, from my point of view. If you think this of Bungle, how do you feel about Secret Chiefs 3? Estradasphere is closer to what you describe here; so good they are just way too good. Hungerstrike.

[asristir]

hospitalcomedian said:

if physical grafitti trimmed down to a single record with the best songs off each, it would be the best record ever made

Amen